0:01 I would like to call to a public safety community meeting for September 10th, 2026 to order. Colleagues, are there any open introductions? Okay, next we will discuss agenda item number one, officer retention and recruitment. Chief Bratney, if you would approach the podium. You may want to sit down. Or sit down, whatever make you comfortable. Okay, Lynn, we'll start off. Whichever way you want to go, you all can answer your first question if you have any. You can. Thank you. How is retention and recruitment going? Thank you, ma'am.

1:02 I appreciate you. Rochelle Brackney, Chief of Police Jackson PD. So we are currently poisoning ourselves to have another October class that we have on. If you would like the statistics, I can help you out with that if you allow me the benefit of putting on my glasses to get us to where our current status is. I just actually inquired about where we were and how we were going to be moving forward, since we do recoup our costs from the state to a large degree, it's about $4,500 or so an officer that we put through regardless of what jurisdiction that they are coming to us from.

1:47 And so the latest numbers that I just got from our chief is that we have currently, one second I'll pull the numbers up. We currently have five that we know that are definitely coming that have already cleared all of the paperwork and they're now doing the psychological exam. We have another six that just went through the physical fitness assessment as well. And then there's another seven that are taking the test and so we're in various phases of it. With other departments that are sending them to us, we are looking to host between our departments and there's 33 individuals minimum at this academy class coming through in October. We had nine that just graduated from the Academy in which all nine entered into FTO training. We have had to discontinue the employment of one and then there we are also evaluating the possibility of having to discontinue the employment of others in that class.

3:06 In terms of our resignations and our retirements that are going on, they are at the normal levels in terms of retirement. Recruitment efforts, we have now, and then I just got an email from Director Toya Martin where Alcorn State does an annual fair here, but we have already been in conversations and talks to have a direct pipeline from them to JPD setting up a program with Alcorn to be able to come directly from a cadet style program into Jackson Police Department. We do not currently have an established cadet program that has been used as a pipeline into the organization.

3:52 Now the one thing you have to understand is that traditionally four year institutions and job fairs are not the places that will net you the recruitment opportunities that you would want because as we all know this is a very competitive field if a person comes out with a four year degree or with a master's degree, the thought about doing public service or civil service work has waned very differently and thus the original programs of Teach for America are that came into place so that you would have to do government service in order to get loan forgiveness and things of that nature.

4:26 There are things that we can do to recruit. Loan forgiveness is often one for public safety if you've done public service for 10 years and you've paid them that you can waive loans. But there's very stringent conditions often to that, which means 120 consecutive payments for your loans back. And so us being able to possibly offer partial loan forgiveness if a person applies for it is a great recruitment effort. You're also looking at, is there ways that we can recruit successfully if you speak a second language, if you have a degree, if you have an additional skill set that you already come with that we could offer one time sign on bonuses that allow you after you sign on the first six months you're successful, you get half of it and then the other six months you get the other half of that bonus.

5:15 And it then builds in recruitment and retention. For recruitment and retention efforts, I recently just put out notices for anyone who is interested in a specialty assignment or creating a pathway to additional duties and responsibilities beyond patrol, whether it was investigations, crime scene analysis, intelligence analysis, task force officers, so that we could see who was interested in staying in the organization but also wanted additional support that received an overwhelming response from within the organization as we did that. I also just put out recently for professional development for the first time if any of our lieutenants, captains or deputy chiefs were interested in attending the IACP, the International Association Chief of Police Conference, that we could support that kind of development.

6:05 And then we also are taking applications for the FBI National Academy that the FBI has offered and said that Jackson will have one slot. I'm hoping to get at least one a year. And so we are now in the process of allowing opportunities for people to be developed further. As part of this recruitment and retention efforts, we're also looking at if we send you to a specialized training that costs the city a certain amount of money, that we be able to sign a contract with you that you stay with us, and then if you do not stay, it's prorated in which you reimburse the city.

6:41 We've had a lot of individuals who we have trained and have had this high level of training only to complete the training and go to another agency and then take their training with us. So the ability to retain talent is one of the things that we are looking at. In addition, ability to retain talent, we have presented a proposal to HR about a complete health and wellness initiative within Jackson Police Department in which we would phase Jackson Police Department and then phase two would also be fire and public works.

7:11 Those jobs that need a lot of support around physical fitness, mental health, stress, etc. We've presented that for result proposal because not only is HR can be supportive but we also understand that our current insurance providers will give us support and dollars for that that would be cost neutral to the city there would be no cost to the city whatsoever but there is a benefit to our officers. That would include developing a particular app for this initiative that we could have for each of the different departments. It's wellness planning, it's assessments, physical assessments, accountability partners, meal prep, and discounted to the physical fitness facilities as well. So there are quite a few things that we are doing to continue to engage officers but also to offer individuals who want to come to our communities that we are doing some of the more innovative creative things here as well. Continuing another area that we're looking at providing opportunities, as you know the city has just been awarded a grant to purchase two unmanned aerial devices or drones and

8:26 And part of that would be the opportunity to become a pilot of those aerial devices and how they would get the additional training. Officers and our younger individuals love technology. So knowing that there's more pathways to engage beyond the basic 911 call services, although we understand that is absolutely important, we do need to show people the ability to expand and to grow and to stretch and be a much more productive part of the community. So that's currently where we are and where we stand on our recruitment and our retention efforts.

9:05 Thank you, Chief. And this is something that I'm not familiar with myself. What is sort of an entry-level position, if you wanted to just join the police force, what are the minimum qualifications or requirements to be, for example, patrol officer and 911 dispatcher, or what are the entry level minimum qualifications? So the majority of them are high school education is what they're requiring, a GED or equivalent of a high school education for all of the positions. And 21 is normally the age for policing, but you can also get waivers if a person is younger than that and wants to apply because, you know, 21 is the year of age in which you can purchase a weapon or legitimately legally have a weapon.

9:57 The other one is just good physical conditions. You must be able to pass the physical fitness test as well as a background psychological test to say that if you have the temperament is what we are now looking for versus necessarily the old psychological test that they would give. There are now temperament tests that you can give that can determine whether the person has the temperament to work within the agency. After their physical fitness and their background checks, you know, they're going to look for things like, yes, they're going to ask about your credit history, but we also understand that people have credit histories for a variety of reasons.

10:35 If you are in a low wage position or if you have a medical history where you have back medical bills, those all can impact your credit. It's a very different standard. We are looking for a person who has a valid driver's license, which is a mandatory valid driver's license that is active at the point of time in which they are to be employed with the agency. And then they will also do a competency test. Most of the barriers that we are finding for individuals who want to get into policing is that they believe that the only way they can have a pathway into supporting us is as a uniform.

11:19 You can come into support JPD, animal control, you can come in through as a criminalist and so we're looking to civilianize a lot of our positions where people have the expertise to do that work so that we can then have officers who are doing those positions respond to 911 calls and to investigations differently. We do currently have more staff in those kind of administrative positions that we would like to have based on someone being able to fulfill those requirements. You can also enter into a pathway as a park ranger.

11:55 There are lots of ways, animal control, you can be a PSA administrative assistant, criminologist, police tech, EOC, 911 operator, detention officer. There are so many pathways into working for JPD. It doesn't always translate to a uniform, but those are the support systems that we need in place in order for the officers who are in uniformed investigations to do their work. Thank you. So you mentioned that there was five that were cleared and ready to begin the program in October. Six additional on the physical fitness. and we're doing sort of other testing, and then sort of combined with other agencies, we'll have 33, but of course, all of those won't be coming to JPD.

12:44 But to hear that there's probably gonna be, say, five to 20 that will be coming through JPD, I think is a really good sign. What is our current number of sworn officers that we have? So that number is currently hovering around 208. So we have lost a four additional officers since our last reporting of 212, again, for a variety of reasons. And the one thing that I am doing so that we can reconcile our stats when people ask us how many retirements have we had, how many resignations have we had, or why they're leaving.

13:33 Although we're putting into a place for exit interviews and things of that nature, I am documenting on the notes the reasons that we were told they were leaving. And more recently the ration of resignations, I've had three. Beside each of those I put that that officer was under investigation when they resigned. And so that we're being able to track better that it doesn't just look like they resigned and left the agency that the reasons we understand that they are resigning. If they're going for other employment and we know they're going to another agency, that they're resigning and then went to another agency so that we can track as much as we can as we start to put in systems for doing that.

14:16 What are some of the reasons that they're putting in or the investigations? Can you mention, generally, without us having to go into an executive session or not? I can say that when a person is under investigation, and hopefully I can phrase it in a way that would be understanding, if a person is under investigation serious enough that they resign versus facing the internal affairs investigation, there's probably a connection to some criminality that they're worried about that this is going to either end in their termination or into a criminal charge.

14:55 Is that helpful? Yes, is there any patterns or anything like that you're seeing? Do we have a pattern of perhaps, you know, poor performance or something illegal going on? Do we see a pattern in a way that you can put your hands, put your finger on? I think two areas that, possibly three. And what do I mean by that? One of them would be say, neglect of duty. Their inability or have not done the work in which they have been, thank you, in which they have been paid to do.

15:36 Incomplete reports, incomplete investigations, no follow-ups on those investigations. Another area I would say is upon review of their behaviors, body-worn cameras and things of that nature, is there a possibility that when we are done with our investigations that we will be presenting that information, internal affairs information to the District Attorney's Office is how I will phrase that. The other way is that more recent, is there a possibility that resources were not appropriately used within the agency? So those are four different reasons, resource? Resources, I would put those all in kind of the same one.

16:24 with the DA? That would be correct, sir. When you say resources, are you saying the officers? I believe this would probably be better for an executive session. Chief, as he was speaking, it gave me reminders of my own work in the school system, and obviously there's many, many, many differences there. But I think one similarity that that struck me as is the need to train up the folks that you have. And it's almost sad to say that in some ways because like when Microsoft hires a computer coder, they don't then teach them how to code.

17:12 They assume that they have those skills and the education and the programs that they've done have equipped them with there. And so when Microsoft hires a coder, they just give them a project. They say, here, go code this and folks go do it. When I was in school, since my father, even when I hired a teacher who was a degree professional, who had gone through a program to teach them how to be a teacher, many educators struggled with basic lesson planning, basics of classroom management, basics of how to work with parents and families, and some of these basics.

17:50 And I found that I almost had to assume that, OK, I'm going to have to teach you what you need to know. Because I was in the position to say, if you don't meet these standards, then you can't work because I wouldn't have had any teachers. And so I'd imagine that you probably are finding yourself having to do a lot of upscaling and training as well. And I had, just for the record, I had amazing teachers who were not dumb, they weren't, I mean, they were good, hardworking, they cared, they weren't apathetic, they were very smart, they were trying their best, but the programs that trained them had failed them.

18:37 And so I found that we had to, now obviously you have some that aren't willing to do it and you've got to make adjustments, but I imagine you're in a situation where There's probably going to have to be a lot of upscaling and training that needs to occur. Yes, we are not only on the most basic, one of the questions I just recently asked about policies and procedures. What was our mechanism for making sure that our employees, one, received the policy, understood the policy, and have been trained on the policy?

19:20 And so the answer I got back was, well, we gave them the policy on this date. And so much like your Microsoft example, if I'm just given the policy, I'm not trained on the policy, and then asked if I understand the policy, and then how do you operationalize the policy that is in front of you, all we are guaranteeing is that we handed them the policy. And so that is where we are now having to change the way that we even go about the work. Another example is at the training academy.

20:02 I've asked specifically what are the lesson plans for each and every session and curriculum that we have on file. Do we have those lesson plans? Do we also have the CV, resume, bio, whatever it is of the person who's teaching it? And are we attaching that to the lesson plan so that when the first time anyone, and I'm not a lawyer here and I'll defer to the CAO, but the first time someone has an event with an officer, they're going to ask what was their training records, how were they trained, Who trained them?

20:43 Did they understand the training? Did they understand the policies? And what is the way in which we verify that they understood what was happening? And so there is a lot of disconnect in that way where we are having to train up. Again, not because that an individual may not have the capacity to understand, but have we set up systems to make sure they understand the information that is being given to them. Okay. My question is this, and I'll start off with the war story too. I taught leadership around the country for supervisors. One of the things I stressed is that anytime we go towards termination, we have to give that up at individual opportunity.

21:27 And that is a part of, I think, our EEOC regulations. That's a part of our, hopefully a part of our personnel regulations as well. And that is you bring the issue to the individual, you describe it, you tell them how they are falling short, you give them a period of time and check back with them and see if they're still out of compliance. and then you proceed on with that paperwork trail. And in this case, to make sure the city of Jackson is not held in a liable situation.

22:03 My question is this. Are you interacting with HR to make sure all of these individuals receive or we're following the book, we're following our procedures before we terminate someone so that we don't put the city in any type of jeopardy? Thank you. I spend a lot of time talking with Director Martin as well as Monica Clay who is assigned to us as well as Attorney Drew Martin about all of our policies and procedures. One to make sure that A, we have standardized policies and procedures is how we do our terminations.

22:43 The first ones, as we know, if you are a probationary employee, I do not need to give you a reason as to why we are terminating an individual. If a person has achieved civil service status and you are putting something like a performance plan into existence, do we have a standardized performance improvement plan model that we're not only using throughout the city but also within Jackson Police Department and does everybody understand what a performance improvement plan might be in terms of it's actually a lot more even in-depth president than even what you put down.

23:20 as a row of things. Any performance improvement plan should, one, yes, identify the problem. Two, you then talk to the employee and you have to get the employee to agree and understand that this is a problem. And then you have to come to up with a plan, again, that the employee understands and agrees to that this is the plan that will get you to your desired outcome. And you don't just check back with them individually as, hey, how's it going? You have to have regular meetings with them to see where they are on the plan and if there's been any barriers or obstacles to them being successful with the plan.

23:57 So it is really in depth in order to get a person to the final outcome of that. What I have found in the short period of time, the few people who have been on a PIP at JPD is there has not been a full understanding of how you pull out or how you create a performance improvement plan with them. So we are working with what do those steps look like, what does a plan look like, but more importantly, is there training that's coming from a centralized location like HR to create performance improvement plans and what are those individual steps that we do that.

24:37 So creating processes within JPD, but also creating processes across the city because they are civil service employees that meet the civil service standards. And I appreciate that. Just a quick question. I know when I was a supervisor, we had to do a evaluation a quarter on the officer on their performance. Do we still do that? So and I've not seen any come up yet through my time to see have they come up and where we are in evaluation quarter. So I'm not sure where we are in the evaluation process, right?

25:11 If it was January through April, are they now in a May through September? So, my arrival here would be where either they would have ended one or they would be now starting into a second quarter of that. But I can make sure that whatever that answer is, if they are stored doing formal evaluations in the manner in which there is a form that they're filling out that says we met with them and we checked with them, et cetera. What I have asked each of the supervisors to do is to create an electronic folder on each of their officers who are underneath them so that when you're having conversations with them, you can easily document that.

25:52 It's all part of a folder and then you can all get them to agree. They do put things on their daily activity reports when they interact with it, but you also need to make sure that you have that supporting documentation so that you can find it very quickly, very easily when it comes to evaluation time. Chief. And quick question. When you was talking about the policy book, now you know they have a handbook and they have the general orders and you were saying that you were trying to make sure all of them was educated on it.

26:20 Which one was you talking about? So ours are on the general orders. They do get the HR handbook in which they're giving them and I know we educate and should be educating on general orders that are changing. If there are any HR handbook policies, I would defer to the experts in HR that they should be the ones that are conducting the HR training if there's been a law change. I know we do get emails out that say there are law changes. Even more recently, Mississippi law has changed on whether you can terminate an officer for positive drug usage and how you have to terminate an officer.

27:04 So I just got that memo weld and we immediately had to put that to the test. And so immediately putting that to the test, it then gives the officer to say that you've been drug tested positively and you have an opportunity to now contest that and you have five days to decide whether you want to contest it or whether you want to go forward with a regular disciplinary action review. Literally that day we're testing it out, the policy. This officer decided not to contest the review.

27:38 He would then also then put himself back into the disciplinary action committee process that officer chose to resign. So instead, my resignation says, resigned under investigation. And so that's the kind of stringency in which I'm looking at coordinating with our legal department as well as our HR department. If we talk about retention, you know, I think broadly speaking across any industry, retention comes down to two things. It comes down to how much money they're making and then everything else. And in everything else, one of the big factors is their immediate supervisor.

28:25 And you hear this all the time that people don't leave jobs, they leave managers. And so some of that is just these soft skills of do you build relationships? Of course you have to challenge your direct reports. It's not all candy and rainbows and sunshine and kumbaya. But nonetheless, people should still feel like they're being supported. They should always feel like they're being respected. They should all never feel like they're being talked down to. They should, I mean, you should, there should be some sort of, again, you don't have to be best friends and, you know, do all that stuff, but there should be some sort of decorum and respect there.

29:03 Do you feel like you, from the whole, from yourself all the way down to all the managers and supervisors, is that something that you feel you're there, the department needs to grow a little bit there, because we're doing as much as we can on the money side and we're working there. But on the other side is, you know, sometimes people will even go to positions where they're making less money sometimes if they're feeling like they have conflict with their manager. So I think I would address that on two fronts, right? There are legitimate reasons for people to not feel respected in the workplace.

29:45 But there are also off-ramps that we are providing within the city that allows an individual who doesn't like a supervisor's tone or perceived tone, they get to file a grievance here in the city of Jackson for any complaint that they have. And we've not been able to bifurcate what does an actual grievance look like, and again I I will defer to the attorneys that would fall under an EEO complaint, right, discrimination, harassment and things of that nature. And we'll say, and I'll see, and I've seen these come up through this, I want to file a grievance because I don't like the tone that my sergeant gave me when they told me to go work in another precinct.

30:27 And so I'm refusing at, and next thing you know it comes in as a grievance out of HR, out of EEO. And so the response, there's that one. The second thing I would also suggest is, are we at any level? I don't think there's anybody, and I just think it's ironic we're having the discussion about decorum too soon sometimes, as we like to say. But I think there is also an opportunity for all of us to grow. As you know, we brought before this council the opportunity to have a formalized sergeants testing examination.

31:03 There had not been a testing examination in JPD since 2020, early 2021. We're almost seven years in so that the supervisors, the majority of them who are in the sergeants position, that frontline supervisor are in acting positions. They have not tested or assessed to the level of being a frontline supervisor. And I don't know what support they received prior to that position or those assignments. I don't know what the criterion was. I'm not suggesting that there was anything nefarious. I'm just suggesting that there was not a formal process that I understand or know to have identified them to be a frontline supervisor.

31:45 So this council approved us to be able to do an outside formal assessment, sergeant's examination through civil service. And I think that will help us in some ways because it will then be able to assess the the ability to do the work and not feel as though they've just been given the work and no support, no assessment of their ability to do the work. And if I can clarify just for the record, the company that was selected is not the company that was hired to do my chief search.

32:22 The company that was hired to do my chief search was the police executive research I know that was entered into council as saying that that was that is not correct that is different than the company that is doing The sergeants examination and won the request for proposal. Okay chief Right now is very competitive out there Getting recruits in a lot of times and I'm not advising folks to do this but if they're not fully committed to the city then they can go other places, make more money, and have less work. So it's very competitive and and this young man right here has been, he has been not making friends trying to get your numbers up, okay, but it's incumbent that we stop going towards the negative and start getting folks positively in place and keeping them in place because right now 208 is just not where anywhere close to where we want to be. This guy, he would take my lunch money to give you a couple million dollars.

33:40 And we don't want that because then that would spike my crime. But can I just say this, I am committed to the most professional police force, but I have said this over and over, although we may be desperate to hire, we will not hire desperately. That has gotten us into the problems that we are in today where we are having to terminate officers for ethical violations, for background histories we should have excluded from the beginning. I will take 200 quality officers who this community can trust. Then 275 officers, where 75 of them could be on the other side of that arrest. So I can appreciate that we may be going to the negative, but if it means getting us to the quality officers, officers who are not out there violating their civil rights, officers who are not out there committing acts of crimes and violence themselves. I can appreciate we're going to go down, but I can imagine that we're going to go down a little further before we get to the ability to do this. And 200

34:51 dedicated officers over 275 just to meet a number will never be something that is support, ever. Okay, and look, I'm not trying to insinuate that we're out there. That's not where I'm going with this. has to be a balance between this council trying pull out all stops to give you money to help and and and so if if you don't need a certain number then just make it clear that you don't need those that number and so we can stop we can stop that's not what I said I said I gave numbers that we need I gave very specific numbers said 275, this is what it will cost, 265, this is what it will cost, 255, this is what it will cost. I know what we need to do this work. Give me one second, sir. We're doing 1.4 million in overtime. So we know what we need to do this work. There are officers out here doing the work, but I will never sacrifice the integrity to have a number. It just can't happen and to have to decide, and I don't want it to feel this

36:02 way, but to decide what level of corruption that I can tolerate within the agency to get me a number, that number will go down every single time before I compromise the integrity, the ethics of the Jackson Police Department. The City of Jackson deserves better than that. And I agree. Thank you. 100% thank you if an officer is out there they found two officers in another Municipality close by new municipality using drugs and they busted them there in the park If we have officers on the take they gotta go if we got officers violating the law they need to go And so I agree wholeheartedly all I'm saying is We need to get good quality officers in the seat to help out those ones that are already there.

36:51 We agree. Can I phrase it this way? Because I love, I agree with what you're saying. And so I think the real question is, how fast can we get good officers? And so you've talked about a class in October, which believe it or not, it's like blink your eyes, it's practically October. So I think we're there, how long does it take to get one up and running? Can we get another one by Christmas? Can we get another one by Valentine's Day? Before you answer, I want to ask you.

37:19 I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Go ahead. And before you answer, let me ask you. Yes, ma'am. It's a lot of good officers have left the department. What are we doing to try to reach – which I know you probably don't know who they are, but what are we doing to try to recruit them back? So the one thing that I would say is I have said over and over and over that we're hiring. I've said over and over again that if somebody is interested in returning back to Jackson Police Department to please put in their applications to do that work again.

37:52 They should be evaluated fairly and competently as well. I also understand that previously what has caused a lot of angst and morale issues within in JPD is that we were bringing back anybody, hiring anybody, putting them in any position and that cannot occur if we want to build morale and a quality and competent agency. Now what are we thinking about doing differently? As I've been talking to our academy staff, is this? Is there, and I'm going to, I please don't want to hear my staff behind me clapping, But we keep offering the traditional way of going through a police academy.

38:31 You have to stay at the academy, live at the academy for a certain period of time of 12 weeks. That is not always the model that works in 2027 when people might be able to go to night school. What might we do to hold academies at night where you don't stay overnight, where you come two or three days a week differently than staying there. That gets a very different population than the group that can afford to stay there who are interested in becoming police officers but can't afford to quit their day jobs to get the certification to do that work.

39:10 That is a model that could work for us to bring people in into and recruit very differently than before. How can we also think about, much like we do, we've had to transition to online classes, virtual classes. Not everyone can get into the same space, but we also know that you can learn. So is it possible that we do some of the stuff virtually and some of the things in person hybrid so that we can create the best environment? Is it also that we may even need to change the way we do it now, two weeks on where you You come for the first couple of weeks to stay at the academy and then you return unless you're one of those persons who's coming to our academy from another jurisdiction where that three hour drive just isn't feasible.

39:59 We could provide you with accommodations. There are so many things that we can do to bring people into it faster, stronger, and more prepared to join Jackson Police Department as long as we're flexible and can accommodate the needs of 2027 and not the model from 1980. What I will say is they did try that once, having a class that went home every day. And I'm gonna say this, but being a trained officer, they didn't have any type of discipline, none whatsoever. And I'm not knocking your ideas, I promise I'm not, but they didn't have any kind of discipline.

40:39 And so that's my point. If we have to babysit our officers for 12 weeks in order that they have disappeared to be a police officer, again, is that the temperament we want? Because the moment they're not being babysat on day 1201 of week 1201, what is the behavior that we're experiencing? And so I'm going to suggest that maybe we're enabling them. Not everybody who applies to be a police officer should be one or should be accepted. But we should be doing the things that we can do to make sure they're prepared to do the work out there on the streets that everybody called to do.

41:21 So I heard that before and they said, oh, the reason we do it, we have officers stay overnight with our recruits to babysit recruits overnight. And so I'm starting to say to myself, is this the model that works best for Jackson or is it creating behaviors that may be difficult for us to correct in the end? Because we just had a class and now I may have three of them that will not make it out of probation. And we babysat them the whole time. And I will say this, I'm willing to try.

42:04 And it may was at the time they were hiring anything. They were. I agree with you. And it's a new day. No, I'm saying you're right. It's a new day that we are being very selective about who we invite into our Jackson Police Department and who we invite into this city to protect them. Okay. Thank you. Thank you chief for being here today. Thank you sir for inviting us here. A couple of questions on sworn officers. You said we have 208 sworn officers. Right about two-eight.

42:46 How many of them are patrol officers? I would have to do the quick math for you if you don't mind. Sure. Okay. Of those we're looking at about 130 of them are in patrol. So the majority of them are in patrol. Okay, so those are the ones that would be working out in the precincts, correct? That's correct, sir. Okay, so that gives you, if you divide that by four precincts into 130, that gives you about 33 per precinct, is that correct? That may not be exactly correct because the faster precinct should have a little more Precinct one should have more than precinct four based on their call volume and their response Well, so if you want to average that for your for your purposes, yes Okay, so we'll just average say average 33 the so they've got three shifts and Then they've got vacation people or when they get sick or whatever And you end up, so per zone, and then you break it into six zones, is that correct, per precinct?

44:12 After you break it, you split, there's 33 per precinct, but then they've got zones, correct? Yes, sir. Again, when we are starting to talk about our tactics and our deployment and things like that, if there's things that we want to ask specifically in closed session that does not compromise our officer's safety, Is there ability to do that? Okay, well I'm just going to, I won't just ask you to disclose any secret thing, but I think everybody in Jackson knows there's four precincts. That's not a secret.

44:49 That is correct. And we have three shifts today. That's not secret either. That's correct. So if you divide the three shifts by the 33 officers, you end up with 11. And then you have to divide that by zones, correct? So there's a number, so you end up with only about three officers per zone that are operating to protect that zone. What really worries me is that we are really falling short on police presence in our precincts out in the neighborhoods. We've talked a lot about whether officers are, you know, good officers or bad officers officers or whatever, but just from the standpoint of policemen on duty and police women on duty out there in the neighborhoods, police presence is a huge part of being successful and keeping people confident that they're safe.

45:47 And business is confident that they're safe as well. And we just don't have enough officers, if we've only got 11 per precinct, per shift, to cover all the zones in that precinct, that really worries me. We've got to have more officers. We can talk about ones that aren't good or whatever, but I'm just going to assume that the average guy who decides he wants to be a policeman has got some gumption that he's willing to go out there and do tough work. It's one of the most dangerous jobs in America.

46:25 And I don't think bad guys really go out to sign up to be a policeman. I think the type of people who decide they want to sign up and be a policeman are pretty basically good people that want to serve their community. I make that assumption. Maybe I'm way off base, but that's an assumption I'm going to make, that they're really good, decent people that want to do something important in their lives. And they do things important when your servants of policeman. You don't call it the thin blue line for nothing.

46:53 And we got a really, really thin blue line serving Jackson right now in these communities if we've only got three or four people in each zone and 11 people for a whole precinct. And that's, you know, 130 officers is not enough, in my opinion, to serve the city of Jackson and do a good job with police presence. So we have to find the solution to adding officers to reach a number of 250 or 255 or 260 or whatever it might be. We cannot be satisfied with 130 patrol officers serving the city of Jackson.

47:34 That's not fair to the citizens. They pay a lot of money in taxes and all to be able to have that service. In Jackson's biggest problem, one of his biggest problems right now is people don't think it's safe here. So we can't, you know, it's something very, very serious. So the officers, the patrol officers that are working in each precinct, do they get their performance reviews? Are they done by the precinct commander? They're done by their immediate supervisor. So the immediate supervisor, what's that position called? Sergeant.

48:09 So how many sergeants does each precinct have? It depends. There's normally two a shift. So there's two sergeants per shift in each precinct? That's correct. Okay. So how many vehicles? Well, hold on a second. Okay. There's two sergeants per shift is what they're allocated for, although we do not have them all fully staffed. Okay. Per precinct. That's correct. Okay. So I'm really, really concerned, Chief, that we've lost, I guess, about 30 sworn officers that have left since over the past five months. And that's my understanding.

48:54 That is not correct. I will get the numbers for you, but we have not lost 30 sworn officers. I think we've had some retirements. I think there was eight retirements out of those. Again, we're looking at all of our personnel, but we will get you the exact number again. I think I provided the last time, but I will get you the exact number again to the Councilwoman Chair. Okay. And then she'll get those out to you or else I can get them to the whole one.

49:18 You just tell me how you would like that done. So back to the, do they, if there's an officer that's not performing up to speed, that does the sergeant or if there's a sergeant that's not performing up to speed, do the other counseling statements that are written by their supervisors? So their counseling or written reprimands that they can have when they're not performing up to speed or any violations, yes, that they're the ones who do that as a matter of fact. Once they do the counseling written reprimands, those eventually will come up to my office and then also over into internal affairs for filing as well.

49:57 Well, I mean, it could be, the counseling statement could be that, you know, you can do better than you're doing right now. It doesn't necessarily have to be somebody who's getting ready to get tossed out of the forest. I mean, but they should be reviewed on a regular basis, so they know they're either in the good graces of their supervisor or behind the eight ball. I mean, I would hope that there's feedback back and forth up and down the chain of command, not just one way.

50:22 That's what Councilwoman had just said, that they do their evaluation. So it's part of their evaluations as well. And then the one thing that we have been doing is there are things that we can do correct behavior that are not disciplined, in a formal sense of the word, like discipline. Like there are things that you can do to counsel to correct behavior, like a person's not coming to work on time, a person's not completing their reports on time. That's not something we're going to terminate you over unless there's a consistent one and then we do performance improvement plans and things of that nature.

50:56 There is the back and forth at that level that is going on and that is being documented. But all of that does still come up into the Chief's Office so that you can file it in an internal affairs folder so that if a person does have a continual behavior and you do have to escalate to discipline that results in a suspension or termination, you have to be able to prove that you've documented every successful or unsuccessful attempt to correct behavior in their their portfolio. Okay, thank you. So there's 208 sworn officers, 130 of them are patrol officers. So then that leaves 78 that are sworn officers, but not patrol officers. What, what are the duties of those 78 officers? What are where are they working in the city of Jackson?

51:44 So you have them a variety of places investigations, whether they're doing crime scenes, homicide, robbery, property crimes, auto crimes, child crimes. You also have them in your administrative branch when they're also part of their bailiffs, detention officers. They're in those kinds of positions where they're not answering 911 calls as well. Okay. So the, when you, when you get some call comes in for a robbery or a burglary or shots fired at a gas station, whatever. Is it the patrol officers that go there or is it officers from investigators, sworn officers that come from a different location?

52:29 And or both. So the patrol officers are always the first ones. When you dial 911, patrol is always the very first one on the scene. And then they will call investigators automatically at that point, whether it's robbery homicide, whether shots fired into an occupied building, or property crimes if it's a person who, vehicle was stolen or something stolen out of a vehicle and things of that nature. Okay, thank you. Well, I'll just let me finish with this and the, I have a- It's the only way you finish- What's that?

53:04 Councilwoman Clean it's, Tina Clay have a question. Okay. Go ahead. Let me finish, make one final comment here and that is that I have the greatest respect for people who make the decision to work as a policeman and then serve in that duty as a policeman. It's one of the most dangerous jobs in America and we don't pay them enough, I wish we could pay them more. But I have high regards for them and I reject the notion that they need to be babysat. I don't even like that term in terms of police.

53:37 I really find that offensive to say that you've got policemen that need to be babysat. And I reject that notion. And I would say that we've got to have the utmost respect for our officers and treat them with the dignity they deserve for the willingness to go out and get in a car and chase somebody down on the highway and then stop if I'm walking to that car, not knowing who's inside it, or go to some house where there's been a disturbance and knock on that door and not know whether somebody's gonna come out come at you with your gun and we need to treat them with respect and talk about them respect as well. Thank you. Okay Councilwoman Tina Clay. Councilwoman Clay that's that's not what you heard I think it's we're talking about how many are actually on the 911 patrol and then how many we have total so throughout the entire agency there's 209. Yes, ma'am. No, ma'am. Thank you. Okay, I have one more question for agenda one, then we'll move on to agenda two.

55:20 Chief, in reference to your new police take-home policy, can you talk about that? There is no new take-home policy. The city issued a policy of take-home vehicles in May of of 2026 and we just mirrored that and said, if you meet these criteria, you need to notify us. One, if you're a vehicle or you live outside of Hines County, which is the city's policy that you have a take-home vehicle. The take-home vehicle policy has always been the same. You must be a 24-hour employee for you to have a take-home vehicle.

56:00 24-hour employees are not that you work 24 hours a day, is that the services that you provide are 24 hours a day. Police, fire, sometimes public works is qualified under their EMS, 24 hour employees, if they work 24 hours a day, in other words, you can call and they're scheduled to be open 24 hours a day. So we sent out a memo that says exactly what the city says that under the state of Mississippi law, and CAO is the one who put that, or helped put that together so that they're aligned.

56:36 You must be a 24-hour employee to have a take-home vehicle as part of your descriptions. If not, there's some other things that are triggered around taxes or declarations. So our policy is exactly that. 24-hour employee, do you live in Hines County? And if you live in, or outside of Hines County, You have to put in a memo saying that you live outside of Hines County and the director can then, if I'm correct, give you permission to then have a take-home car. If you are not a 24-hour employee, you don't get a check.

57:14 I thought we had a radius if you lived outside Jackson. I thought it was a radius. I think 40 miles or something? Peter Taylor, some C.A.L. I think there's a little confusion. There is a set of vehicle policies for the city. apply citywide but those policies also acknowledge that first responders services may adopt separate policies. So we have tried to restrict anyone who's not living in the city of Jackson from taking a take-home vehicle. However, obviously the policies are intended to acknowledge that police and to a lesser extent fire may have particular situations that warrant taking home a vehicle or vehicle use that's different than say folks in the planning department or in human and cultural services.

58:01 Okay. And my concern about that is because I've been receiving several calls from the central about the police cars not being in the neighborhood anymore because they've been taken up. That is not true. There's not been a single car returned or taken from a single officer yet. Everything has been in place and they are putting in the policies or the request. And I have not denied a single one because they have not gotten them back yet. until I think it was last week to even get the memos in saying that you live outside Hounds County. So if anyone's calling you and saying that, please tell them to get in contact with me because no one's vehicle has been taken, no directive by me to take any vehicles. You can actually, we can actually show you the policy that we put out. It went out through the entire Jackson Police Department to sworn and non sworn personnel. Well no disrespect but you may want to reach out to your your upper staff and probably they misunderstood the policy. I'm not

59:06 sure. Councilwoman let me echo that we've heard a lot in the last year Chief Bracken somewhat new this but people misinterpreted things. How many times have have I been quoted as saying we have a hiring freeze. Yet how many times have I looked here and said, we don't have a hiring freeze, we're hiring by necessity. How many times have we been told we're not hiring in public works? I can tell you I checked after last week's conversation the same day that we were questioning whether we're hiring in public works, they were posted on the city's website, we have vacancies out there, we're asking people.

59:44 So I think you're, again, councilwoman, You have a particular knowledge like your colleague, Councilman Hartley, because y'all have worked for the city and been here a long time. I think you're right. There's probably some misinterpretation from what the chief is trying to accomplish with those down there. And I say that because I have been misquoted steadily over the last year on some very basic things. And then what I would also echo is the policy went out to every single person. It didn't just go to the command staff or the deputy chiefs.

1:00:17 It went to everyone in the entire organization, whether they were sworn or not sworn, and it said vehicle take home policy. It had the city's policy that the CAO's team put out, and all I did was echo his and said, if you live or if you meet these conditions, you need to notify us. That is all it said in there. So if the officers who say that their cars were taken, if they can't read either, I'm not going to take responsibility for if they say that someone else misinterpreted because they had the memo too. They had it too. It's not what some hearsay or a 10-can where someone played you know telephone game. Every personnel received the policy and the memo and I will share that again with counsel as well. Okay Anymore question on agenda item number one? Okay. Agenda item number two, So cameras in the real-time command center.

1:01:16 We can start with Councilman Flipp. Cameras in the real-time command center. The, I guess, you know, I'm not sure where we stand. And I don't know the numbers right now. If you wanna just give us a brief summary of what cameras we've got and access to it and how we're able to man the real-time command center with the challenging situation we have sworn officers or maybe they don't need sworn officers in the command center, I don't know. Real-time command center should not be actually manned by officers. It should be manned by professional staff, civilian or non-sworn, whatever language that you want to use because that is the best use of our personnel versus a person who has gone through an academy to sit and watch cameras and respond to cameras and to pull video footage and things of that nature. As you know that the city had or may not know originally allocated four spaces for the real-time command center all of those were individuals who were non profession or who were professional staff non sworn personnel. We have

1:02:27 advertised and have done interviews to fill all four of those positions to make sure because I believe we're down to two positions that were there. What I I will also say about the real-time command center is this, bringing each of our officers up to standard so they know how to access the real-time command center from whatever equipment that they do have. Not all vehicles are equipped with the mobile data display terminals to be able to access that or they'll have to access them through their personal phones. They do not have the equipment to do that or have they been issued all of them laptops or iPads to be able to access the system.

1:03:09 It was extremely limited as to who had access. The training that had occurred, to even access it, the last training was when it was first stood up about four years ago, maybe just short of four and a half years ago. They're all going back through what can the certification process look like, getting their PIN numbers or their ID or password numbers reinstated, because it was very low usage on even who had access or the ability to access that. So we're doing that. Although you have individuals at the real time command seminar, what you really want is a resource multiplier for the officers to be able to get that information in real time.

1:03:50 One of the things I'm proposing, as you know, dispatch 911 has been displaced from over IT for a while due to some roofing issues. And they are now co-located at Hines County. My, and what we're looking at the project is to move 911 to co-locate next to the real time command center so that we can now actually have even more spaces where our dispatchers can see the cameras as well as our 911 operators. And it gives us a much more visible profile and footprint of being able to access cameras and use them.

1:04:28 In terms of how many cameras that we have out there and access to, we do get a weekly report that I have and we can actually get it in front of you as to what we have been able to retrieve as a result of real-time command, what those alerts look like, training hours, where our blue light cameras are. We have a combination of cameras that we have put into place, the city has, as well as cameras that are still outstanding to be put in place, and then cameras that the community, even more recently, the CAO and I will have a meeting and conversation about other blue light cameras that have been put out in the communities as well.

1:05:16 If you want to talk about the city asset locations, we have 20 that are city asset locations, 28 locations of those camera systems, 88 are operable, 84 are inoperable. Street locations, other ones where we have them with LPRs, 76, 58 of those are operable, 20 are inoperable. donor locations and when we say private donor locations, they've actually are the ones who have put those up. 99 are operable, 264 are inoperable. Now, FUSIS CORS, that means that we can access your systems from somewhere else. You put them up, you buy the core or the conduit for which we can tap into that. 117 CORS, 75 are up, 42 are down. We also have street locations with AI capability. We have flock alerts that can help us. There are 16 flock cameras throughout the city that will allow us to alert. There are much more details that we can give you. In our blue light cameras that are currently down in Fuses, we have the locations that those are down. The complaints are the requests. The body

1:06:35 worn camera is footer requests. We receive a lot of those. Remember, cameras don't just exist on a pole, our body-worn cameras also act as the ability to capture information, capture data, as well as our dash cam information as well. The one thing that I will tell that there's a note behind, real-time command alerts. In other words, in which the real-time command center is actually seeing something and then alerting us to an event, that number and has I believe consistently been zero. Of which though persons who are watching the cameras are alerting us to some activity or some event that is occurring out in the community.

1:07:21 What we are asking and what we did have a demonstration today just before I walked over here is how do we pull all these systems together so that they're now talking to each other and can pull and data mine stuff that starts giving us alerts. And that was one of the demonstrations that we had today. We'll help pull real-time command center together, FUSIS alerts, NIBAN alerts, all of our CAD, all of our RMS systems so that we can have data at a fingertip for our officers even if we don't have equipment because most people do at least have a phone that we can operate under.

1:08:02 kind of where we are right now in terms of where we stand. So the camera system. Let me follow up. That was you said that you've got two people assigned to the real time. How does that work? You only have two people? I can tell you when it's always only been four is what they've been saying. Even with four, how does that work? It doesn't, is what I'm saying to you. It does not. To even have any thought that a real-time command center could stand up with four individuals cannot have existed.

1:08:41 You do not have real-time coverage. That means that some person when I arrived here, there was one person working daylight with the weekends off, or alpha shift. There was a second two people working the bravo shift, and again, weekends off, and then the third person was working a night shift, and again, weekends off. So for the most part, we had no coverage on the weekends and one person trying to watch cameras during the daylight. So how do you solve that? How do you solve it? You solve it two ways.

1:09:12 One is where you want human interactions, you can get them into place. We should be, if we're going to try and man a real-time command center to any full degree, you want to do that with at least two on a shift. The way you really solve this is, as I've said and I've gotten before, is AI software. AI can go and you can put algorithms in that say when this thing is occurring, crowds are occurring, numbers of cars, it starts to search all of our video evidence for us and then sends out alerts.

1:09:44 That's the kind of thing that we're looking forward, because AI can do it through all these video feeds very quickly in seconds what a human being can never do. And so that is part of it is when we put the real time command center in, we should have integrated AI software that would help us identify and data mine conditions and circumstances that would cause an alert. So we're going to have to do it on the back end. Thank you. Ken, are we going to be seeing an agenda item on this AI software?

1:10:18 I'm sorry, say that. Are we going to be sending an agenda item on this AI software? I mean, if we need it, then we need to go ahead and get it. We just literally just had the demonstrations today. Oh, OK. As I said, just today, I mean, our team is good against the agenda. And I had to leave before the full demonstration was done. But everyone in the room could not believe the time it can save us. When you're talking about your key performance indicators, the amount of money that it can save you on the ability to respond quickly.

1:10:56 I think we are all on board. And so whenever you evaluate the different vendors, please let's go ahead and push it forward. We're there, we're there with you in agreement. Because cameras in itself is force multiplier and AI, it can do the things that human eye can't do and twice as fast. That's correct. I am concerned though about some of the numbers you ran concerning the inoperable cameras. One statistic you had, I think you said 90 working and 200 not working. Two how many? 264, 20.

1:11:36 Is that a manufacturer's problem? Is that a Jackson problem? Good question. How does that thing work? Did the system go down? What happened? And this might be another one, I think we had talked about it before, that needs to go into an executive session over our cameras and our camera system provider installer. If we can do that in an executive session, that would be helpful. I just think as long as our city attorney is on that and we're following. The city attorney is on that. And we're following because that number is crazy.

1:12:11 The city attorney is on that and there is communication trails, even from myself, as to our issues and our concerns. And so I completely agree with you. But again, this is a problem that we're going to have to navigate, that we all have inherited and then we're just trying to unjumble it. Thank you. Thank you. Two quick questions based on what you've just shared. First, I'd be curious to know, and you may need to go back to the vendor, but the AI software program that you've mentioned, and you can set things, large crowds or this, that, the other.

1:13:00 I'm wondering if it can pick up fires. So a lot of what you can do is set up conditions within those, right? And I'm sure there's a lot of ways for us to integrate that information. But one of the key things that we were doing with the data as we were looking at it, because we pull from CAD and JPD takes all of the CAD calls for police, fire, and emergency services, medical services, we can then see exactly what I heard Chief Thomas say that there was this one location they had responded to, I believe six times. We can start pulling that data and that now becomes a predictor of where we might actually see the next set of fires occurring because of the conditions that are starting to exist. Imagine if we We pull in our 311 calls, data, pull that data, pull our CAD, our CAD is 911 data for people with computer aided dispatch, that's our 911 or EOC data.

1:14:10 Pull in our records management data with it, pull in all of our NIBINs data. The key is what we're now trying to do is identify those conditions that create public safety hazards, whether it's crime or whether it's blight or whether it's fire conditions. If we can pull that all together, again, part of what the Model Cities initiative that we're going after is we can create a literal footprint, a constant twin, digital twin of what the city looks like and its state of hazards or readiness. That's amazing.

1:14:45 And the preventative stuff and sort of the forecasting stuff is really cool. But even, I don't even think, for me personally, I need that high of a bar. I mean, I think it would be even a win for, I mean, and Chief, correct me if I'm wrong, if a camera can spot that there's a fire before someone calls in a fire, my understanding is every second counts with you. And so if it can say there's a fire here, in other words, I think this can help public safety really, really broadly, this potential AI.

1:15:15 I agree. Did Chief Thomas said that he was willing to send some of his money my way? Is that what he said? My other question about the cameras besides the fact that we're not getting the feed from them I think which is bad enough but you know with our let me set aside cameras for a second with our lighting like our light poles and our deal with energy is we're paying for those lights even if the light bulb isn't actually on, are we paying the bills for the down cameras?

1:15:53 Like, is there power sources or is there things that we are paying regardless of whether we get the feeds or not? That is correct. And again, we can provide counsel with all of the camera locations, I would just, we can provide that for you. I've been reviewing that constantly. Not only paying for the energy, just like you do the light, we pay for the cell service for each of these cameras that are up. So each camera that is up out in the community cost Jackson Police Department as part of their budget so when we're talking about supplies and things like that that come out of our budget it cost me about a hundred and between a hundred and ten and a hundred and twenty dollars per camera that are up there for some of these cameras that the city supports that quickly starts to rack up in the amount of money that's coming out of the the JPD budget. It's a hundred dollars. So it's normally $88 for their energy.

1:16:46 Are we talking about monthly, annually? Monthly. Monthly, I'm paying $88 for energy cameras. And I know this was something that Councilwoman Clay brought up and then there's some cameras. And then we also pay for the AT&T connection, which can be also around $43. So some are higher, some are lower, whether they're single cameras or double cameras in that location. When I'm asking is are you paying that for eat for if you take the operable ones and the in our that's correct And you add that up. We are paying the sim cards and we're paying the electric cards for all of those. That's correct 123 dollars apiece I have asked that might be enough when they way in the executive session about but I have asked that we clarify and find out where we can where we're what the agreement has been.

1:17:41 Peter Tablinson, CAO. Chief Bragney and I have just begun looking into this issue. I will tell you from a 100,000 foot view, the same confusion we have on streetlights as to who owns what, but somehow we're paying for everything, is going to be the same thing with respect to the blue light cameras. We want to be cautious in what we share publicly because it is a safety issue. but I will assure you Chief Brackney is concerned about who has access, who's paying bills. I share the same concerns.

1:18:15 Some of this has been tied to grant funding. There are vendor concerns that she and I share. Give us a little more time to work through this. And I think we'll be able to provide you offline some additional data. Suffice it to say, and again, the street lights is the most obvious example, both for the council, the public, we've got to get a better handle on this. Right and Chief excuse me, Mr. Tableton. You can call him Chief go ahead. Please ensure our legal department is aggressively pursuing this.

1:18:47 You know we've been victimized and we need to we need to reply to that. And I will make sure the legal department is doing so and again I think you'll be getting a briefing from them soon on, for example, the parking contract. I think the legal department shares your concern with, be careful by using the word victimized, but we share your concern that the bargains that the governing authorities thought they were getting for the funds they were expending have not benefited the public in a manner that is acceptable.

1:19:28 That's very diplomatic of you. And President Chelsea, the person who works with us out of legal, has been brought in from the very beginning, the first time we started understanding that there was a problem, and then we found an additional problem that the CAO and I are working on. So I meet literally, regularly, twice a week directly with our counsel on all of these issues. and how we can better utilize and be better fiduciary agents of the money that we've been given throughout all of our departments.

1:20:10 So I share every one of your concerns, and we will be continuing to examine every contract. The one thing that we can tell you that we may benefit, that would help us and that would also help Director Anderson on this, on this is how might we also use the two new unmanned aerial devices once we get them to help us plot our streetlights that are out? You know, I think it's not, I don't know if it's the best idea that we've said is can the police go out on the night shifts and start looking at telephone poles, but can we put up an unmanned aerial device that can then identify that streetlight that's out for us and then we can start reporting those back immediately to public works.

1:20:59 And then how can that impact our energy bill as well? So although we are looking to do things towards public safety, we know that lighting is part of a public safety component and cannot be separated out from it as well. Yeah, we may have to get with the manufacturer and tweak that out, you know, if we're gonna use it for streetlights. So sweet I'm sorry to equate out sir an evaluation or the street lights using our drones we may have to get with them and find out the capabilities so we can get it right because I know you know entity has plotted everything out but we may want to get with them to see how we can get a large of you scan down and make it something that we can use just in closing I'm gonna think the chairperson for call us together and for your leadership on this. Thank you.

1:21:56 Thank you. Any announcements? Just one thing, Chief. Don't take it personal. After this budget hearing, we're going to be asking all departments for metrics, for trends, for patterns, to show our efficiencies and our effectiveness to our people. So, next meeting. Yeah, I agree. I'm not taking it personal, but I also We also will say that whenever we are being asked for any metrics, any department, we should be able to at least give them and make sure that there's a support system in place so they can get those metrics out.

1:22:32 And so when we're asking for, as I was just talking recently, and again, this was part of the demonstration, if we were to ask today, do we have the software or the ability to pull out our CAD response times? We don't have that. So to say what are your response times and there's no support to be able to do that is very difficult for someone as a key performance indicator. If we're saying though, we hear the key performance indicators and I can't remember the gentleman's name who just sent them to me yesterday or the day before that the city has hired to do KPIs as a consultant, sent a metric and said, oh, here's all the things that we're interested in, but we need to also have dialogue about what it is, what is the key performance indicator and what is the goal we're trying to achieve by saying this is the key performance indicator.

1:23:27 If it's response times faster or slower and does that translate to lives being endangered, we need to understand that. Does it translate to crime going up or down? How are we determining those metrics or getting us a desired outcomes? Are we just using the only metrics we know and not getting us there? So I think we should have some dialogue and conversation about what those are and are they getting us the answers that you actually are looking for. Are we just giving us answers, which is a very different one.

1:24:00 I think at first, Bush, we will be asking the directors to look, build your own report card. What do you think is boring? And then we will add on. But initially, you guys get to determine it first. Go at it. Thank you. Any announcements? Okay. This meeting is adjourned. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair.